E08. Creating Worlds & Characters: Sam Verhaegen on the art of DM'ing
Join us for a captivating discussion with our first guest, Sam Verhaegen, who brings a wealth of experience from the world of Dungeons & Dragons and fantasy RPGs. Sam shares his insights on the importance of storytelling in gameplay and how DMs can prioritize narrative over strict adherence to rules. The conversation delves into the evolving landscape of tabletop gaming, including the new D&D player handbook and the impact of corporate decisions on the gaming community.
Sam Verhaegen joins the Rolling Into Fantasy podcast for a lively discussion about his extensive experience in Dungeons & Dragons and the broader realm of fantasy RPGs. As an active Dungeon Master (DM) and seasoned player, Sam shares insights into his journey from a novice player introduced to D&D by his friend Vincent to a creative force within his gaming community. He reflects on the evolution of his gameplay style, emphasizing the importance of character development and the collaborative nature of storytelling in RPGs. Throughout the episode, he highlights the significance of using established campaign settings as a foundation for building engaging narratives, advocating for the use of premade materials to enhance creativity rather than stifle it. Sam's passion for creating memorable NPCs shines through as he discusses the joys of giving life to characters with unique voices and backstories, enriching the gaming experience for both players and the DM.
Amidst sharing personal anecdotes, Sam and the hosts delve into the challenges faced by new DMs and players alike, addressing the overwhelming nature of D&D's ruleset. He encourages flexibility in gameplay, advising DMs to prioritize narrative over strict adherence to guidelines, which can often lead to a more immersive and enjoyable experience. As the conversation unfolds, the trio explores the balance between combat and storytelling, with Sam acknowledging the need for combat mechanics while advocating for a more narrative-driven approach. This discussion resonates with many in the gaming community, as they seek to find their unique style and voice within the D&D framework.
We explore the challenges of balancing combat mechanics with creative storytelling, emphasizing the collaborative nature of role-playing games. As we wrap up, Sam offers valuable advice for both new players and DMs, encouraging a focus on creativity and enjoyment in the world of fantasy role-playing.
The episode culminates in an examination of the future of Dungeons & Dragons, particularly in light of recent changes in the game’s rulebooks and the impact of corporate influences on the hobby. Sam expresses concerns about the shift towards a more commercially driven approach to the game, emphasizing the importance of maintaining community engagement and the spirit of creativity that has always defined tabletop gaming. The hosts and Sam share their excitement for upcoming campaigns and personal projects.
Takeaways:
- Sam Verhaegen shares his journey into Dungeons and Dragons, starting at age 19.
- He emphasizes the importance of imagination and creativity in gameplay and storytelling.
- Sam prefers using pre-made campaigns as a base, adding his own flavor and characters.
- The collaborative nature of D&D allows players to influence the story significantly.
- He believes the new D&D rules are more of a cash grab than necessary improvements.
- A good Dungeon Master prioritizes story over strict adherence to rules for better gameplay.
Companies mentioned in this episode:
- Wizards of the Coast
- Hasbro
Transcript
Hi, and welcome to episode eight of rolling into fantasy.
Host:And today is quite a special edition because we have our first guest, who is Sam Verhage.
Sam Verhage:That's me.
Sam Verhage:Hi.
Host:Welcome.
Sam Verhage:Thanks for having me.
Host:The pleasure is ours.
Host:Absolutely.
Host:And we invited Sam not because he's a great guy, but also because he has quite a lot of experience in the D and D.
Host:And for that matter, the larger fantasy rpg world, let's put it that way.
Sam Verhage:Yeah, I'll take that compliment.
Host:All right.
Host:All right.
Host:You should be the one to introduce yourself because I might miss a lot.
Sam Verhage:Where to start?
Sam Verhage:So I'm Sam Som.
Sam Verhage:Maybe let's stay away from the american accent.
Sam Verhage:I started playing D and D when I was 19, I guess.
Sam Verhage:So that's like, I'm 43 now.
Sam Verhage:So that's five years ago with a little help.
Sam Verhage:Well, a lot of help, actually, from my dear friend Vincent van der Auera, who is also known as the Vince of Darkness.
Sam Verhage:And it was him that introduced me to D and D.
Sam Verhage:Okay.
Sam Verhage:That was third edition at that time, maybe or 3.5, I'm not sure.
Sam Verhage:When we started playing, it was 3.5, but through him, he introduced me to D and D at large.
Sam Verhage:And then later on, we.
Sam Verhage:We helped organize.
Sam Verhage:We helped organize a lot of events.
Sam Verhage:Live action role play events.
Host:Yeah.
Sam Verhage:I know that you're going to Marinara.
Sam Verhage:I know that you're going to join one.
Sam Verhage:I'm curious to hear which one you're going to attend.
Sam Verhage:Maybe I know some people there.
Sam Verhage:I've been playing the gathering for longer than I care to remember.
Sam Verhage:It is a money pit.
Host:It is.
Sam Verhage:It's a rabbit hole, and I love it.
Sam Verhage:And I've been so.
Sam Verhage:Yeah, been playing D and D for quite some time.
Sam Verhage:I've been a DM or an active DM, let's say a very active DM for the last two and a half years now.
Sam Verhage:When we restarted in five e with my.
Sam Verhage:With my latest playgroup, there is no translation in English.
Sam Verhage:They're called the Bonsundernam.
Sam Verhage:I think that loosely translates to the club without the names.
Host:The nameless group.
Host:The nameless.
Sam Verhage:So, yeah, fantasy has been, or at least fantasy adjacent things has been a part of my life for a very, very long time.
Sam Verhage:I was a very proud member of Tk 421 Laurent in the nineties.
Sam Verhage:So I must for.
Sam Verhage:That's why I.
Sam Verhage:That's why I came bearing gifts today.
Sam Verhage:It's not often that you find yourself in the presence of royalty on the spot, so.
Sam Verhage:Yeah.
Sam Verhage:And maybe I should mention as well, together with my friend Vincent, we have created our own comic, comic books.
Sam Verhage:We have released.
Sam Verhage:We have done so many different things in the realm of fantasy.
Sam Verhage:I think it's a little bit too much to name as an introduction.
Sam Verhage:I think that's quite enough.
Host:That is a very nice introduction.
Host:Absolutely.
Host:And you mentioned that you started gming about or restarted.
Sam Verhage:Yeah.
Sam Verhage:Restarted.
Sam Verhage:Yeah.
Host:Okay.
Host:So it's not two and a half years ish, but it's more than that.
Sam Verhage:Well, I have been playing, actively playing for more than 20 years, since three, since 3.5.
Sam Verhage:And then in the meantime, I have done a lot of world building.
Sam Verhage:But as you know, with DND, it comes in, it comes and goes in waves, and everything has to do with the people that you play.
Host:Absolutely.
Sam Verhage:That you play with.
Sam Verhage:So I have, for the Larap events, that's a couple of years ago, me and my friend Vincent, again, we helped write, we helped write a lot of the crazy storylines and did a little bit of the world building as well.
Sam Verhage:So.
Sam Verhage:Yeah.
Sam Verhage:But now I think as a DM, I've really, I feel that I've come into my own with this playgroup at this moment.
Sam Verhage:I have a feeling that I found my voice, if I can.
Sam Verhage:Maybe that's a little bit too dramatic, but, yeah.
Host:Excellent.
Host:And I'm curious, what triggered I, you to become or to start playing as a DM?
Host:Well, so when, how did this occur?
Sam Verhage:Yeah, it's not so romantic as you would this.
Sam Verhage:Well, in the last iteration.
Sam Verhage:So in this playgroup, it's really a group of people that never played.
Sam Verhage:So it's all new people.
Sam Verhage:Okay.
Sam Verhage:And they got their influence from different.
Sam Verhage:So I have a couple that plays in my group, and they, they were just, they were just curious about D and D.
Sam Verhage:They read about it, they heard about it, and, of course, stranger things has done, has done wonders for, for the, for the game at large.
Sam Verhage:Absolutely.
Sam Verhage:So there are different, different influences.
Sam Verhage:But the thing that was, I think, the, the common denominator, they were very curious.
Sam Verhage:They knew that I played D and D.
Sam Verhage:They knew that, they knew that my friend Vincent played D and D.
Sam Verhage:They knew that I, I was very heavily involved in, in my local play group, the Wizards of Osgood, a play group, a magic, the gathering playgroup that I organized in Azschot, where I live.
Sam Verhage:So everything came together, and then it just crystallized.
Sam Verhage:And I said, okay, I'll be your forever DM, because it looks like I'll be the forever DM for quite some time.
Host:All right.
Host:Also, another question that I have now that we've more or less established how you made that jump.
Host:Where do you get your inspiration?
Host:I mean, for one, and I'm sure it's different for you.
Host:I mean, I know that you.
Host:You're not a DM yet, but not.
Speaker C:Planning on becoming one.
Host:Oh, that's what they.
Host:That's what they all say.
Host:That's what they all say.
Sam Verhage:It's a logical.
Sam Verhage:It's really a logical stuff to take.
Host:It is.
Host:And for me, it's partially coming from my own imagination.
Host:I mean, you have to have a very wild imagination, but I think most of us have that.
Host:And it also has an influx from fantasy, fantasy literature.
Host:So I'm wondering, is it all coming from your own imagination or is there some inspiration that you get from elsewhere?
Sam Verhage:The thing is, and there are, I'm pretty opinionated because you have a lot of DM's that look down on the pre made campaigns.
Sam Verhage:Like Curse of Strand.
Sam Verhage:Yeah, the dragon ones.
Sam Verhage:Yeah.
Sam Verhage:We are.
Sam Verhage:We are running.
Sam Verhage:We are running Fendalin now.
Sam Verhage:So we are doing lost mines of Pam Delver.
Sam Verhage:And to be quite honest, I think it's easier to just pick a pre made campaign and then make it your own because I feel that it's a better way to expand your energy or fantasy or the.
Sam Verhage:Or the.
Sam Verhage:Or the creativity that you have in filling the world that pre exists with characters.
Sam Verhage:I love creating NPC's.
Sam Verhage:That's my.
Sam Verhage:I love creating NPC's.
Sam Verhage:I love making up little silly voices for those NPC's.
Sam Verhage:I will record them on my phone and rehearse their facial expressions in the mirror.
Sam Verhage:So when I talk to my players every time, I can generate.
Sam Verhage:Well, at least generate the same type of.
Sam Verhage:Let's say.
Sam Verhage:No, I can.
Sam Verhage:I can reproduce.
Sam Verhage:That's a difficult word.
Sam Verhage:Reproduce the first encounter that they had with that certain NPC.
Sam Verhage:So I think it's easier to use the world building that wizards of the coast has already done because it would be.
Sam Verhage:I think it's a bit stupid to think, okay, I'm going to do something.
Sam Verhage:I'm going to create something better than the sword ghost.
Sam Verhage:Yeah, go the fuck ahead.
Sam Verhage:Now, having said that, I try to do a lot of things.
Sam Verhage:I go off.
Sam Verhage:Off script.
Sam Verhage:So I use the premade campaigns as a guideline.
Sam Verhage:And then I just try to fill things in with the background.
Sam Verhage:With the background of my players.
Sam Verhage:For this campaign, I just used the pre made.
Sam Verhage:The pre made template characters, but I wrote new backgrounds for them.
Host:Excellent.
Sam Verhage:Because a fighter is a fighter, a rogue is a rogue.
Sam Verhage:And you can roll the statistics, of course, and then maybe their int modifier will change a little bit and maybe their wiz modifier will change a little bit.
Host:Sure.
Sam Verhage:But an halfling rogue will always be a halfling rogue and it has to be played a certain way.
Sam Verhage:So it's better to invest in.
Sam Verhage:Invest energy in trying to create something and trying to generate something that will be playable by your players.
Host:It's something that you also enjoy as a non DM Er, but I would almost say a seasoned D and D player, right?
Host:I think that the part that you love most, Marino, is really creating characters, right?
Speaker C:Correct me if I'm wrong, I love that part.
Speaker C:I think because apart from my character as a player, I don't get to create anything within the world.
Speaker C:Everything else is the DM's doing.
Speaker C:So I like to be very, very extra when it comes to my character's backstory.
Speaker C:For example, you will get ten pages, and I wish I was kidding, but no, ten pages of purely backstory which I have devised in ages.
Speaker C:And at the front you have pointers to give you a quick overview of the backstory.
Speaker C:Because I want to put as much as possible in there because it's the only thing I get to create.
Speaker C:And if the DM allows it, I'll also homebrew stuff because I'm too creative for dungeons and dragons.
Speaker C:I feel like D and D is a little bit too limited to what you can create character wise.
Host:Wow.
Host:That's a statement.
Host:That's a bold statement.
Host:Yep.
Host:I mean, I was going to say really?
Host:Are you serious?
Host:I have a hard time even picking because, like Sam just said, the few moments that I, or campaigns that I DM'd, which I can count on half a hand, to be honest.
Host:I always start from, as you said, an existing campaign and just made it my own.
Sam Verhage:That's fine.
Host:And then obviously the, how shall I say, the way it turns out.
Host:I mean, that you cannot write because that's totally up to the decision of the players.
Host:That's how the story unfolds.
Host:But at least using an existing campaign, even if it's just the highlights, is enough for me to get inspired.
Host:But then I.
Host:I do have some of the manuals, some of the playbooks, and there is enough there for me to get lost in.
Host:So for you to say it's not enough, it's not deep enough, I can do better.
Speaker C:I'm not saying I can do better, let's make that perfectly clear.
Speaker C:I'm not saying I can do better.
Speaker C:It's just I'm a very creative person.
Speaker C:So when for example, I am making a character, and I'm really getting into her backstory.
Speaker C:For example, I'm picking Verena, one of my current favorite characters.
Speaker C:And she has a background of removing organs from corpses.
Sam Verhage:Sure.
Speaker C:She has a surgical background.
Speaker C:Pretty morbid.
Host:Oh, she's a doctor.
Speaker C:No, she a legal one.
Speaker C:Sure.
Host:What is she?
Sam Verhage:Is she human?
Speaker C:No, she's an scorched Asimar and t fling.
Sam Verhage:Okay, but then it makes sense.
Sam Verhage:No, seriously, then it would make sense if you would write that person and you would use.
Sam Verhage:Well, I should use the term species now in five.
Sam Verhage:E 24.
Host:Exactly.
Sam Verhage:Let's talk about that later.
Host:Absolutely.
Sam Verhage:That makes sense.
Sam Verhage:But if you were to choose a human and write that type of stuff, it would not make sense because it's psychopath.
Speaker C:I mean, to be honest, she.
Speaker C:She has issues.
Speaker C:Where did that come from, I wonder?
Speaker C:But, for example, there is one ability that I really wanted her to have, which is not a spell in D and D.
Speaker C:So I gave the idea to my dm, two ids, actually, because I wanted her to have a very specific fighting style plus a very specific magic spell.
Speaker C:So those two are completely homebrew.
Speaker C:Because I really like to personalize the fighting style of my characters to give them more of a personality.
Speaker C:And sometimes the things that D and D offers is just not the things I'm looking for.
Sam Verhage:I see.
Sam Verhage:Well, that's the whole reason why homebrew is just so.
Sam Verhage:Well, it's a possibility.
Sam Verhage:That's just the thing.
Sam Verhage:The manuals are just there as a guideline.
Host:Exactly.
Sam Verhage:It's like, it's like it's an encyclopedia that you can choose to use or choose to ignore.
Sam Verhage:To your point, I have instructed my players to not listen to this episode.
Host:Thanks for that.
Sam Verhage:They will, but they have to wait till the next play session because one of my.
Sam Verhage:Well, the high elf.
Sam Verhage:No, I'll get back to that.
Sam Verhage:I wanted to touch on what you were saying first there, so that the game's not complete enough for you, that you like creating backstories, that you like creating characters, but that's because you are a seasoned player.
Sam Verhage:You know what is, what is possible.
Sam Verhage:You know how the game works and you know, and if you know how the game works and you understand the game, that's when that.
Sam Verhage:That's when it gets fun to start manipulating it.
Speaker C:Yes.
Sam Verhage:Well, manipulating is maybe a bad word.
Sam Verhage:Maybe customizing to fit it to your, your type of playstyle better.
Sam Verhage:But that means as well that your DM has to go along with it.
Sam Verhage:It has to fit into his world.
Sam Verhage:Building.
Sam Verhage:So it's more of a collaborative process.
Sam Verhage:And if that works out, it's beautiful when it works out.
Sam Verhage:Yeah.
Sam Verhage:But for me, just to finish my point, for me, these are all new players.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Sam Verhage:It's the first time they.
Sam Verhage:It's the first time.
Sam Verhage:So what I did is in my first couple of games, I stayed as far away from the rules as I could.
Sam Verhage:I just use them as a guideline to explain the dice mechanics, explain how a turn works.
Sam Verhage:Because it's like explaining offside to a non soccer player.
Sam Verhage:If you want to explain to someone what a dodge action is, I'm going to save my action to be able to dodge.
Sam Verhage:Explain that to someone who has never played D and D.
Sam Verhage:So it gets easier.
Sam Verhage:And every time that we played, I tried to get closer and closer and closer to the basic guidelines, basic rules.
Sam Verhage:And now we are coming into that chapter of our group where they start to have.
Sam Verhage:When they are starting to have fun with their characters.
Sam Verhage:So there's true character development, as it were.
Sam Verhage:That's why I like starting players off at level one and then having them level leveled completely through.
Sam Verhage:I'm sorry, I interrupted you.
Host:No, no, no.
Speaker C:Go ahead.
Speaker C:I think the reason why I want to customize or homebrew so much is also from how I got into d and D is when I started playing D and D.
Speaker C:I think 70% of our campaigns were homebrew because that was the choice of the DM, which gave us a lot of freedom in how we created our characters, what they were able to do, then, that stayed with me.
Speaker C:I want that freedom.
Speaker C:I want to choose what my character does.
Speaker C:And then sometimes the classes or the spells are just too limited.
Speaker C:Plus, I play a lot of roleplay, and that's also very, very creative.
Speaker C:When you create a character, usually the rules are you can choose, like, six magical abilities for your character, and the staff will choose how powerful those magical abilities are.
Speaker C:And then you can go as wild with your own magic as you want to because you don't have a list to choose from.
Sam Verhage:Oh, I see.
Sam Verhage:Okay, so it's the lists that bother you.
Speaker C:Maybe a little bit, yeah.
Sam Verhage:But they bother me as well.
Sam Verhage:I think it's incredibly stupid.
Sam Verhage:In a world where magic is something that exists, that there is a list in five e, a cleric can physically talk to his goddess.
Sam Verhage:It's almost like picking up the phone at a certain point.
Host:It's a WhatsApp.
Sam Verhage:It's almost like that.
Sam Verhage:It depends on which God he has chosen.
Sam Verhage:He or she has chosen, of course.
Sam Verhage:So it doesn't make any sense to limit the gameplay to a little list of spells.
Sam Verhage:I'll give you an example.
Sam Verhage:My high elf priestess.
Sam Verhage:She's a full blown priestess of Okmade, born and raised in Neverwinter called Aurel.
Sam Verhage:She never saw another human being in her life before she stepped out of the convent.
Sam Verhage:Yeah, convent, okay.
Sam Verhage:And now she's part of this ragtag band of fucking mercenaries and she's trying to get along, but she found, like, a milk crate of magical potions.
Sam Verhage:Okay, and those magical potions were an experiment of an aspiring, in this case, it was a wizard, strangely enough, but.
Sam Verhage:Strangely enough.
Sam Verhage:But he was trying to make or recreate potions of invisibility for a reason.
Sam Verhage:I will not disclose this channel.
Sam Verhage:But the thing is, she found it.
Sam Verhage:And the potions of.
Sam Verhage:Well, it was, it was his test.
Sam Verhage:It was his test batch.
Sam Verhage:So the first one.
Sam Verhage:Yeah, yeah.
Sam Verhage:There you are.
Sam Verhage:Show me that in the manual, you won't be able to find it.
Sam Verhage:So if you drink the first one, only your clothes go invisible.
Sam Verhage:The second one.
Sam Verhage:If you drink the second one, you go invisible, but your clothes stay the same.
Sam Verhage:If you drink the third one, you get really tiny.
Sam Verhage:And technically, that's a.
Sam Verhage:Also invisibility.
Host:True, true.
Sam Verhage:Fancy.
Sam Verhage:Go.
Sam Verhage:So it's Alice in Wonderland.
Sam Verhage:Yeah.
Sam Verhage:And then, but I can't spoil this.
Sam Verhage:So they can't listen to this episode just yet because they tried the first couple ones, and there's just one, the most explosive one, where when you, when she.
Sam Verhage:When if someone drinks it, everything else goes invisible.
Host:Oh, crap.
Sam Verhage:Yeah, that doesn't exist.
Sam Verhage:But for the gameplay.
Sam Verhage:Yeah, for the gameplay.
Sam Verhage:And that's what I'm saying.
Sam Verhage:If you feel like it's too limited, then just fuck their limits.
Host:Absolutely.
Sam Verhage:Do whatever you want.
Sam Verhage:But what I.
Sam Verhage:Well, I'm hearing you talk like that, Marino.
Sam Verhage:I feel that you should just start dming.
Sam Verhage:It will be very, it will be much easier for my next campaign.
Sam Verhage:I'm going to, I'm going to homebrew something, but it will be based on the world of laundfoist.
Sam Verhage:It's a, it's a french comic book.
Sam Verhage:Everyone is.
Host:Very nice one.
Sam Verhage:Yeah, it's beautiful.
Host:Yeah, very nice.
Sam Verhage:Arloston and Murier.
Sam Verhage:Very, very.
Sam Verhage:It's a, it's, it's the golden standard for, like, fantasy type french comic books.
Sam Verhage:Just to clarify for the, for the listener, everyone is born with just one magical ability.
Sam Verhage:And if you're very lucky, you can manipulate fire.
Sam Verhage:And if you're very unlucky, you can manipulate farts.
Sam Verhage:And there is a lot of things in between.
Sam Verhage:Exactly.
Sam Verhage:And we're going to do something.
Sam Verhage:But I, but my, my players are becoming more and more experienced now and they're starting to feel the same way, as you say, Marino, or they want to make it their own because now they understand what the outer limits of their characters are.
Sam Verhage:And that's the beautiful thing about it.
Host:Exactly.
Host:But to pick on that with my very limited experience, I would even dare to say, I mean, both as a player and a DM, I think I'm much more, I would not say afraid, but I'm so uncertain of myself.
Host:I think that's better.
Host:Very uncertain.
Host:Because let's face it, when you start even, start playing, not even DM, but start playing, the rules are so overwhelming.
Host:And that's exactly what kept me off trying D and D for a very long time.
Host:And I mean, I've been playing magic for two decades.
Sam Verhage:Beautiful game.
Host:I love it.
Host:They're the, it's much more accessible.
Host:Well, I mean, at the beginning, you know, the very basic steps, and it took me a while to see that within DND, well, you can do more or less the same approach.
Host:You can simplify it, not dummy fy it, but, you know, just simplify it, you know, some basic stuff, and you just go along.
Host:And to bring it back to my second shot at DMing, which was an a session, a one shot campaign, which is a complete different ballgame, obviously, 3 hours, but with random strangers.
Sam Verhage:Right.
Host:So I did not know any one of them.
Host:So that's an additional layer of stress that it gave to me.
Host:I felt very uncertain because I was like, oh, crap, most of them, or probably all of them will know the rules much better than I do, and I will fuck it up.
Host:Definitely.
Host:And I did because guess what?
Host:I had five players and those were five DM's.
Host:Yeah.
Sam Verhage:Well, that's, but that's the, that's the big curse.
Sam Verhage:I refuse to do that because you can only, you're setting yourself up to fail.
Host:Yeah.
Sam Verhage:Because if you, once you, I think once you're a DM and you're, you're, you want to be surprised.
Sam Verhage:You want to.
Sam Verhage:And everyone has his own, has his own certain style of play.
Sam Verhage:My, my personal way of dming is I, it's like, it's the same thing when I, when I play magic, the gathering.
Sam Verhage:I like Janka.
Sam Verhage:Like, it has to be funny.
Sam Verhage:It has to be entertaining.
Host:Yes.
Sam Verhage:And we can cry, we can laugh, but it has to be, it has to be something.
Sam Verhage:And for some people that have been that play for a long, long, long time.
Sam Verhage:They try min maxing their characters, if that makes any sense, and they just become like this, an archetype of the.
Sam Verhage:Of the most of the most exquisite rogue or fighter that has ever lift.
Sam Verhage:And the humanity, well, the humanity or the Azimarati in your case, gets taken out of it.
Sam Verhage:And that's something that I think as a DM, you have to really safeguard.
Sam Verhage:So people take that.
Sam Verhage:Their playstyle into their games.
Sam Verhage:So I think it's a very ungrateful way of getting to dming if you have to do it for.
Sam Verhage:For a couple of DM's.
Sam Verhage:That's.
Sam Verhage:Yeah.
Host:And the thing was, okay, that was a specific setting in which upfront you would not know who would join your campaign.
Host:So I had no clue.
Host:But I was fearing, oh, if there's like one or more than one DM in my party, I'm so screwed.
Host:Which I was.
Sam Verhage:But that's a pity, because normally most guys that I know that, damn, you have two directions that you can go.
Sam Verhage:You have the people that just railroad everything.
Sam Verhage:This is my story.
Sam Verhage:This is a story that I homebrewed.
Sam Verhage:This is the shit that I wrote.
Sam Verhage:And you will follow my story.
Sam Verhage:And everything has to get knocked into that corner.
Sam Verhage:And then you have the guys like me if you want to go fishing, by all.
Sam Verhage:Let's go fish.
Sam Verhage:Roll me a d 20 to see if you can find your fishing pole.
Speaker C:Honestly, that is the best way to DM because that is how my level one character fought the level 20 boss.
Sam Verhage:Oh, nice.
Speaker C:She did not die.
Sam Verhage:Yeah.
Sam Verhage:Okay.
Speaker C:And that's after she kicked his in the private parts.
Sam Verhage:Okay.
Sam Verhage:With a well placed, natural 20, you can change the world.
Speaker C:Well, that was a very dumb move because then I almost died.
Speaker C:But, you know, if you can do whatever, you can do stupid shit.
Sam Verhage:Yeah, absolutely.
Host:And, I mean, remembering the first campaign that I created, that was a totally different story because I created one only for my dear friends.
Host:And you might know, you were also part of the gang, and you have a totally different approach.
Host:And we played it here at our house.
Host:I liked to have my story, or at least my players, to have them submerged into the atmosphere.
Host:So I even had background noises, background music.
Sam Verhage:Oh, that's nice.
Host:But I cooked the dinner that was served in that inn.
Sam Verhage:Okay.
Host:So really full immersion in the story.
Host:And that's what I like.
Speaker C:I mean, I think if there's one big hint that you can give, DM's speaking as a player sure is music, because that gets you so into the mood, into your character.
Speaker C:It just helps to set the vibe.
Sam Verhage:Well, I use pocket Bart.
Host:Oh, nice.
Sam Verhage:Pocket Bart is really nice.
Sam Verhage:There's a free version of it, and you can just run music through it, and it generates this generic tavern music.
Sam Verhage:Generic walking through the woods music, sitting around the fire.
Sam Verhage:Yeah.
Sam Verhage:We mostly play at my kitchen table in my house, and my two girls, they find my hobbies very strange.
Sam Verhage:They don't participate.
Sam Verhage:So I'm really jealous of you guys.
Sam Verhage:It's really nice.
Sam Verhage:Maybe it will change for me.
Host:Oh, you know, my son, nor, I would say, my youngest daughter, she doesn't understand.
Sam Verhage:Oh, no, no.
Host:She has no affinity with fantasy, so.
Sam Verhage:There'S always one in the family.
Speaker C:She started watching Game of Thrones.
Speaker C:There is progress.
Host:There is progress.
Host:There is hope.
Sam Verhage:Okay, let's see.
Sam Verhage:But the thing is, I wanted to touch on what you were saying about atmosphere, and if you're able to create a story where people are invested into their own character, and it's not just waiting, because it happens a lot, that people are just waiting for their turn.
Sam Verhage:And I try to generate a situation where they're all working together, where every turn is okay, that they are actively discussing what they are going to do, even if normally you shouldn't do that.
Sam Verhage:I actively encourage them to do that, and it happens from time to time.
Sam Verhage: It's: Sam Verhage:And then when I go, okay, guys, that's game for today.
Sam Verhage:It's like.
Sam Verhage:It's like there's a mist or a tunnel that gets opened up.
Sam Verhage:Like, you see what I mean?
Host:Decompression.
Sam Verhage:A decompression.
Sam Verhage:And they're all saying the same thing.
Sam Verhage:Once we start playing, it's like the world narrows around us a little bit.
Sam Verhage:Excellent.
Sam Verhage:I cannot, and I have.
Sam Verhage:It's the only hobby and the only place where I have ever found that type of.
Sam Verhage:Let's call it experience.
Sam Verhage:Yeah, let's maybe call it experience.
Sam Verhage:I have never experienced it anywhere else than in diem.
Sam Verhage:But you have to do that with people that are like minded.
Host:Absolutely.
Host:Yeah.
Host:I mean, it's so much easier going into a story and being yourself, because that was another restriction that I really heavily felt.
Host:I mean, I had this story which I slaved upon, you know, for quite some time.
Host:Yeah, sure.
Host:And I didn't do it justice because I was too stressed out, you know, being confronted with people that know the rules.
Host:Better than you.
Host:You don't know these people and you have to run a quote unquote successful campaign in 3 hours.
Host:Yeah, so, yeah, it was stupid perhaps, but I did learn some stuff.
Sam Verhage:I mean, at least you learned what.
Host:You learned what what not to do what?
Sam Verhage:No, no, not necessarily.
Sam Verhage:Not to what to do, but at least you saw what you like.
Sam Verhage:That's not.
Sam Verhage:Because there are a lot of my friends, they go to facts, for instance, same.
Sam Verhage:Yeah, and then you can go do one shots there.
Sam Verhage:But I think it's a very sterile way of getting introduced to d and d because you have people just sitting around.
Sam Verhage:But more often than nothing, it doesn't really.
Host:Well, let me ask you this then some.
Host:What would be the top three advice, pieces of advice.
Host:So, top three pieces of advice you would give to a first time player.
Host:And after that I'll ask the same question for the DM.
Host:But first, if you are wondering as a future potential player and have no immediate friends that are dming, let's put it this way.
Host:What's the advice that you would give them?
Sam Verhage:It's a two part answer.
Sam Verhage:Okay, I would do so.
Sam Verhage:I would advise them to find a local playgroup like your local game store.
Sam Verhage:There are a lot of in Leuven, Antwerp, in Brussels, there are a lot of places where you can go physically in game and they organize these introductionary sessions where you have people like me.
Sam Verhage:We did it a couple of times where you can just go and experience the game.
Sam Verhage:That's why I brought my little map.
Sam Verhage:I know it's not show and tell on this podcast, but I will come back to that later.
Sam Verhage:So what I like to do is we just run a dungeon.
Sam Verhage:Excellent.
Sam Verhage:Here we made a couple of little puppets and it's very easy.
Sam Verhage:You are a dwarf and you're a fighter and you don't have to think about it.
Sam Verhage:Let's just see what happens when you go into and just create empty characters and have the people fill it in themselves.
Sam Verhage:That would be my first piece of advice for a new player.
Sam Verhage:Just talk to the people in your local game store.
Sam Verhage:There are a lot of them.
Sam Verhage:Secondly, is that even a word?
Sam Verhage:Secondly, yes, it is.
Sam Verhage:Okay, thank you.
Sam Verhage:As the listener maybe has understood already, I've come to dumb things down a little bit here.
Sam Verhage:I would strongly recommend watching the first season of Dimension Twenties fantasy high.
Sam Verhage:Brennan Lee Mulligan is without a doubt the most talented and at least the most intelligent, but certainly the most talented dungeon master I have ever, ever seen in action.
Sam Verhage:Because he.
Sam Verhage:I will not say that I identify myself with him?
Sam Verhage:No, I would never.
Sam Verhage:The man is an absolute genius.
Speaker C:He's iconic.
Sam Verhage:He's an absolute icon.
Sam Verhage:But the way that he plays is my way of playing as well.
Sam Verhage:You follow the rules where you can, and you follow the story when it's necessary.
Sam Verhage:But he homebrews everything.
Sam Verhage:Cheese knights, space operas.
Sam Verhage:It's beautiful, the things that they do.
Sam Verhage:But fantasy high, I think fantasy High is a very good way to get acquainted with the five e rules.
Sam Verhage: ith the new edition, with the: Host:Excellent.
Host:Actually, it's the same way that I started.
Host:I just went to my local game store and joined or enrolled in a session just to get acquainted with D and D.
Host:So that's exactly how I rolled into it.
Host:I totally agree upon that.
Host:Okay, what piece of advice would you give to a beginning DM?
Host:Let's say.
Sam Verhage:I would say, just forget the rules, just do whatever you can.
Sam Verhage:And if you're in doubt, let the dice decide.
Host:Excellent.
Sam Verhage:That's the only.
Sam Verhage:Because it can be so overwhelming.
Host:Yes.
Sam Verhage:I'm sitting here in your beautiful recording studio, and if I turn around, I can count 25 different D and D books here.
Sam Verhage:It's impossible for just one person to understand every role, even if you have Tasha's.
Sam Verhage:I'm forgetting the name now.
Sam Verhage:The book of many things.
Sam Verhage:I'm mixing the two.
Sam Verhage:But you have the monster manual.
Sam Verhage:You have the DM manual.
Sam Verhage:You have the player.
Sam Verhage:You have the player manual.
Sam Verhage:It's impossible to.
Sam Verhage:To hit every rule every time.
Sam Verhage:But there are players that.
Sam Verhage:There are DM's that do that.
Host:Exactly.
Sam Verhage:But that's another type.
Sam Verhage:That's another type of DM.
Sam Verhage:And I'm not that type of DM.
Sam Verhage:I'm very story oriented.
Sam Verhage:And the rules are just there to create a guideline, maybe, and you could argue.
Sam Verhage:Okay, is it.
Sam Verhage:Are you exaggerating a little bit?
Sam Verhage:But I have a lot of experience playing white wolf systems as well.
Host:Okay.
Sam Verhage:And that's just.
Sam Verhage:It's very easy.
Sam Verhage:You have.
Sam Verhage:You have, like, experience.
Sam Verhage:Like, experience drops and you just use the tens and the DM sets the difficulty.
Sam Verhage:You say, okay, I'm a simple human marindor.
Sam Verhage:You're sitting on a simple stool.
Sam Verhage:Now I'm going to do a backwards.
Sam Verhage:A backwards inverted flick flag from the stool.
Sam Verhage:Okay.
Sam Verhage:Then the difficulty here is ten.
Sam Verhage:Okay, let's see.
Host:Sure.
Sam Verhage:And it's a very easy way.
Sam Verhage:So there are no rules there.
Sam Verhage:Well, there are a couple of rules, of course, but it's very limited.
Sam Verhage:So so I think you have to be story forward as a DM and then just forget the rules.
Host:I think that's the best piece of advice that you could give.
Host:And I'm always too, I don't know about you because you don't dm yet, dear.
Speaker C:Well, I do have a question to come back to that point.
Sam Verhage:Marinor, if you start dming, I will come play.
Host:You already have two players because I will join, I will complain.
Speaker C:Sam, I do have a question for you.
Sam Verhage:Sure, sure.
Speaker C:When it comes to D and D, what is your biggest con about the game itself?
Speaker C:Because there is one very big thing, one very big con for me when it comes to dungeons and dragons, and that is exactly why I do not want to dm using dungeons and dragons.
Sam Verhage:Well, yeah, I think I know what you're saying, but I'm going to give the politically correct answer.
Sam Verhage:No, no, no, don't.
Sam Verhage:I think the problem that you have that you could run into, and I am running into that problem now, is that once your players get experienced and once they get very familiar with the rules, well, they can just buy a player's manual and they can start correcting you.
Sam Verhage:And that's something that can create like a break on the system that for me personally is the only real con to the, to the play system.
Sam Verhage:But I'm sensing that's not what you're talking about.
Sam Verhage:No, go ahead.
Sam Verhage:I'm very curious.
Speaker C:So my biggest problem with dungeons and dragons, and again, this is a bold statement.
Sam Verhage:Go ahead.
Host:Bold statement.
Speaker C:Number two, that is, for me, dungeons and dragons essentially is a combat system.
Speaker C:And I hate to fighting in dungeons and dragons.
Speaker C:Loathe it, hate it.
Speaker C:Every encounter that we have where we have to fight and I actually have to look at my character sheet.
Speaker C:I groan because I don't know how to play my character and I don't want to see it.
Speaker C:I know how to create a character.
Speaker C:But when you have the turn based fighting, I feel like in one turn I can't do enough.
Speaker C:And it's very limited and it's dungeons and dragons for me, it's a combat system.
Speaker C:I very narrative focused.
Speaker C:I want story, I want interactions, I want encounters.
Speaker C:I don't want to fight.
Speaker C:I just want to get stronger through story.
Speaker C:And dungeons and dragons is just not built for story specifically.
Speaker C:Again, in my opinion.
Speaker C:That's, again, I know, bold.
Speaker C:Well, I just, I have a lot of DM friends and they have told me, again, I have not used these systems yet, but they have said these are usually more narrative friendly systems compared to dungeons and dragons, for example, blades in the dark.
Sam Verhage:Sure.
Sam Verhage:Yeah.
Sam Verhage:There are more accessible ones, I think, than that one.
Sam Verhage:I've played that one a couple of.
Sam Verhage:Well, at least two times before in a one shot setting.
Sam Verhage:But let me quickly process what you said here.
Speaker C:I'm sorry.
Speaker C:I know it's a lot.
Sam Verhage:No, that's fine.
Sam Verhage:I agree with you up to a certain point.
Sam Verhage:But I think calling dungeons and dragons a combat system is doing it a little bit of an injustice because it was created initially to codify the telling of a story.
Host:Yeah.
Sam Verhage:And combat is a very integral part of dungeons and dragons because, of course, there are a lot of bros that play D and D.
Sam Verhage:I'm a bro, nothing wrong with that.
Sam Verhage:But I am very story oriented as well.
Sam Verhage:And I think those two things, they can coexist, because if you play in a white wolf system, for instance, which is very story oriented, it's up to your DM or the other players that will create the situations in which you will have to react.
Sam Verhage:It happens a lot, and I've seen it happen myself a lot of times, that the playgroup just devolves into a set of murder hobos.
Sam Verhage:Seriously.
Sam Verhage:They just roll into town, kill everyone, and then just fuck right off and then do it again.
Sam Verhage:So I agree with you that the combat system is something that is.
Sam Verhage:It's pretty stupid, to be quite honest.
Sam Verhage:Yeah, the initiative based is not really logical, but you have to have.
Sam Verhage:I play with six people.
Sam Verhage:You have to have a certain way of organizing.
Speaker C:See, just to clarify, I don't hate dungeons and dragons.
Speaker C:I still love the game.
Host:Too late.
Sam Verhage:No, no, no.
Speaker C:It's also because I do have one campaign where we alternate between role playing and actually having a session, like through voice chat, for example.
Sam Verhage:Oh, that's nice.
Speaker C:So between the sessions, we roleplay, but we can also encounter fights.
Speaker C:But the rules are a little bit different in the sense that when we fight, then it's not with turns and you have x amount of actions.
Speaker C:It's more the rule of cool.
Speaker C:And that is how I fight, because I like to get creative.
Speaker C:For example, I use minor illusion to throw a dagger.
Speaker C:So my enemy thinks I'm throwing a dagger, but it's a minor illusion.
Speaker C:And then I grab shackles from my inventory to try and get it on their wrist so they can't use their weapon anymore.
Speaker C:Or I cast light on a bookshelf behind me so they're blinded, and then I can use a weapon to throw at them.
Sam Verhage:For example, in the combat system, that just doesn't work.
Speaker C:That just doesn't work.
Sam Verhage:All your action, even your bonus actions are depleted there.
Sam Verhage:So.
Sam Verhage:No, I see what you mean.
Sam Verhage:I see what you mean.
Host:But I mean I do understand and I knew this, but I think it's totally up to the DM to allow a high or low level of originality of creativity in even the battle sequence.
Sam Verhage:Yeah, but for instance, I tend to follow Matt Mercer is another very, is another very good example.
Sam Verhage:The critical role guy, he always asks his people, even now they've been playing for 150 years, how do you want to do this?
Speaker C:I love that sentence.
Sam Verhage:And that's what I'm trying to implement as well in my current game.
Sam Verhage:But maybe it's becoming clear that I've grown as a player and as a DM as well in the time that I've been, been doing it.
Sam Verhage:And I'm moving away a little bit from the combat tactics.
Sam Verhage:For instance, I had an encounter where in the Kragmore hideout.
Sam Verhage:That's an instance in the van Delver campaign where the main boss is more acting like a field commander.
Sam Verhage:And when the party of six people is up against an army of goblins, the turn based just doesn't work anymore.
Sam Verhage:So there the combat system is out the door.
Sam Verhage:And I just said we're going to do this in blocks.
Sam Verhage:Discuss amongst yourselves, how are you going to respond.
Sam Verhage:Tell it to me and then I will explain to you what happens.
Host:And I'm wondering, as a seasoned DM or DM that you are, is that frowned upon when playing with others, being very creative with the combat rules and just putting it to whatever flow that you deem worthy of the game?
Host:Because that's also something.
Host:Again, I always am afraid that I'm doing injustice to the rules and obviously I don't know the rules well enough to be a good DM yet.
Host:But I love the way that you approach it and that you might also would prefer it.
Sam Verhage:I'm sorry, I'm going to have to stop you there.
Sam Verhage:You keep saying I'm not a good DM yet because I don't know the rules.
Sam Verhage:That I think you can make an excellent DM just by the ability of ignoring the rules.
Sam Verhage:When you need to ignore the rules, it has to be a story.
Sam Verhage:It's, it's a, it's a, it's a performance that you know, it's not playing.
Sam Verhage:It's like a little play.
Sam Verhage:So, so the rules are there just as a guideline.
Sam Verhage:When, when there are discussions that you have something to go to and say, let's see if that could have worked.
Host:Yeah.
Sam Verhage:Okay.
Sam Verhage:That's.
Sam Verhage:That's the only thing there.
Sam Verhage:No, no, I would.
Sam Verhage:I would.
Sam Verhage:I would have.
Sam Verhage:I will strongly disagree with what you're saying.
Host:Fair enough.
Host:But.
Host:Okay, we need to move along.
Host:But I still had another question, so just indulge me.
Host:You mentioned it way in the beginning of our discussion.
Host:So a new version of the player handbook has just come out.
Host:The rest is coming.
Host:We have the DM version coming out in November, if I'm not mistaken, and the rest will follow.
Host:What's your take on that?
Sam Verhage:Well.
Host:Oh, boy.
Host:Can of worms.
Sam Verhage:No, no, no.
Sam Verhage:Let me make a bold statement now.
Sam Verhage:Now, DND is a part of wizards of the ghost, which is a part of Hasbro, and Hasbro is slowly fucking up the entire.
Sam Verhage:The entirety of their catalog, including the gathering.
Host:Okay, elaborate.
Sam Verhage:It's a cash grab of.
Sam Verhage:I just.
Sam Verhage:I can't.
Sam Verhage:I can't even begin to define defined.
Sam Verhage:I'll start with magic, the gathering.
Sam Verhage:And now I will.
Sam Verhage:I will make my point about shirti magic.
Sam Verhage:The gathering, for instance, they just released a new master set.
Sam Verhage:I forget the name.
Sam Verhage:It's modern masters three.
Sam Verhage:Help me out here.
Sam Verhage:Yeah, I think it's modern masters three.
Sam Verhage:Something like that.
Host:They did.
Host:And there's another one that they're gonna kick off in November.
Sam Verhage:Yeah, sure.
Sam Verhage:They reprinted a lot of staple commander cards.
Host:Yeah.
Sam Verhage:Okay.
Sam Verhage:So people, a lot of my friends, they are seeing the value of their collection going down, but not with €50 hundreds of euros in.
Sam Verhage:Commander.
Sam Verhage:They just outlawed dockside extortion is now.
Sam Verhage:For the record, I do not condone the death threats.
Sam Verhage:It's just a fucking game, people.
Sam Verhage:It is, yeah.
Sam Verhage:But it was incredibly stupid to rip out dockside extortionist jeweled Lotus to have.
Sam Verhage:To have such a great impact on the.
Sam Verhage:On the resale value of the.
Sam Verhage:Of the cards, because.
Sam Verhage:And that's something wizards of the coast always allowed it because it was a very vibrant community of trading and buying and selling.
Sam Verhage:And of course, they kept on selling selling cards, but now, Hasbro, they're seeing.
Sam Verhage: e buying cards at like three,: Sam Verhage:Well, maybe we should get in on the action.
Sam Verhage:And that's.
Sam Verhage:That's.
Sam Verhage:And I really think that is.
Sam Verhage:That's the influence that Hasbro has had.
Sam Verhage:Carry that over to DND for now.
Sam Verhage:When the new rules were announced, you saw in all the Facebook, in all the Facebook groups, you saw people unloading all their handbooks before even knowing what was going to be mentioned in the new rules so that a new reprint can be sold again, it has become a very cash oriented thing.
Sam Verhage:Wizards of the coast, at this moment, they're launching so many magic cards, they're launching so many different products at the same time, and it's very hard for the fandom to follow along.
Sam Verhage:So that's my first point.
Sam Verhage:Now, coming back to the rules, I don't understand why a complete reprint or a revision of the rules was necessary.
Sam Verhage:I made some notes in preparation of our time together and I just noted the things that struck me as the most annoying, maybe.
Sam Verhage:Yeah.
Sam Verhage:So the races, they went out of the window.
Sam Verhage:It's, now it's, it's, it has become species.
Sam Verhage:Yeah, now.
Sam Verhage:And species is linked into the background.
Sam Verhage:And what I do like is that, but I have been playing like that background inform the basic statistic, the basic stats of your character and also the gear that they, that they get.
Sam Verhage:I'm fine, I'm fine with that.
Sam Verhage:Does that merit a reprint of the entire book?
Sam Verhage:No, that's the first thing.
Sam Verhage:Rest and healing.
Sam Verhage:Long rests are now required to spend all hit dice to fully, to fully heal.
Sam Verhage:I've been doing that already because it's way more easy to play like that.
Host:Sure.
Sam Verhage:Is it necessary to do a reprint about neural spell changes?
Sam Verhage:Exactly to your point.
Sam Verhage:What you were saying, Marinor?
Sam Verhage:They just tweaked the list of spells a little bit.
Speaker C:It's the goddamn list.
Sam Verhage:It's always the list.
Sam Verhage:So the big changes are details that can, that don't really have a very important impact on the game.
Sam Verhage:And it feels like a major cash grab to me.
Host:I feel your pain and I'm a real sucker for stuff that I like because, I mean, I've been a long fan of Star wars and I stopped purchasing stuff and God knows I have quite a collection.
Host:I see that.
Host:I kept everything from my early childhood and I was seven, so that's like 300 years ago.
Host:And.
Host:But I stopped purchasing almost anything because, I mean, I was collecting comics, toys, collectible figurines.
Host:I mean, you name it, I have it somewhere lying around.
Host:But I just stopped because, to the same point you made, it's just a cash cow and they have no regard for the fans.
Sam Verhage:No.
Host:Same goes.
Host:I'm more or less in the same situation with, with magic, although I really love the game.
Sam Verhage:But you love opening boosters.
Host:Yeah, yeah.
Host:And not just a pack.
Host:No.
Host:Let's go for the box.
Sam Verhage:Oh, yeah.
Speaker C:Like the box standing there with all the unopened packs.
Host:Yes, but they will be opened, don't.
Speaker C:Worry, in a couple of years.
Sam Verhage:No, for collectible guard game lovers.
Sam Verhage:It's like crack cocaine.
Sam Verhage:Oh, the sound.
Sam Verhage:Only, only the sound and the smell of the new cards and the possibility.
Host:But having said that, I've seen that my, the frequency with which I purchased new decks have, has really diminished.
Host:Decreased.
Host:Yes, because they were like, they're doing a lot of crossovers now and I'm like totally not interested in most of them.
Sam Verhage:Well, the Monty Python one was cool.
Host:Yeah.
Host:And the D and D one, two, Lord of the Rings one, also cool.
Speaker C:But after that, I've only recently started getting back into the gathering and up until now, the only set that really grabbed my attention was Bloomburrow.
Sam Verhage:Yeah, the little mouse.
Sam Verhage:The little mice.
Sam Verhage:I loved Bloomberg.
Sam Verhage:It's a very hard set, to be quite honest.
Sam Verhage:I have an arena deck with only mice and it's a monocurf.
Sam Verhage:I think my most expensive card is three.
Sam Verhage:And I went mythic with that.
Sam Verhage:Bloomberg is a heart set.
Speaker C:A colleague of mine is currently building a bat deck for me.
Sam Verhage:Nice.
Speaker C:Because I hate building decks and he loves building decks.
Host:Same here.
Speaker C:So he's just like, you know, I love building decks.
Speaker C:You just tell me what you want and I'll make it for you.
Sam Verhage:And is it constructed that you play or is it commander that you play?
Speaker C:Commander.
Sam Verhage:Commander.
Sam Verhage:Yeah, I started playing when it was just simply constructed, but arena took a lot of that space and now it's a lot of commander.
Sam Verhage:And to be quite honest, it's not really my jam.
Speaker C:I do like both, cause Commander is fun.
Sam Verhage:Yeah, but it's pay to play Marinor, no?
Speaker C:Yeah, when I play with friends, I play the most sucky decks and I still have fun.
Sam Verhage:Okay, well then you're like me, I like playing jank decks.
Sam Verhage:I have my goblin deck with me.
Speaker C:I'll show it one of my favorite DM's, his goal with commander.
Speaker C:And this is why I love him so much.
Speaker C:He creates commander decks that cost as less as possible.
Speaker C:Like the least expensive deck ever.
Speaker C:And he wants to destroy the most expensive decks with those decks.
Speaker C:And it works, it works.
Host:We should pair him up with one of our good friends there.
Sam Verhage:Yeah, sure.
Sam Verhage:Okay.
Sam Verhage:Yeah, but magic, and certainly commander has become a little bit of pay to play.
Sam Verhage: I can guarantee you if I drop: Sam Verhage:And that's something that you tend to see now the optimization again.
Sam Verhage:And that's not, I don't like, so what I do like, and I don't know if you have experience with that Marino or with seals, like drafting.
Sam Verhage:Yes, drafting and then here.
Sam Verhage:Here are six.
Sam Verhage:Here are six.
Speaker C:Is that how you got me into magic?
Host:That's exactly how I got into play magic.
Host:It's the pre release parties.
Sam Verhage:That's the best way to play, man.
Host:That's how she started.
Sam Verhage:It's like, who is the smartest man or woman at the table here?
Sam Verhage:Or who has had the most luck with this draw?
Sam Verhage:With his or her draw.
Host:Exactly.
Host:Exactly.
Host:But, I mean, coming back to the last question, so things that you don't really like or disagree with, with the new publications or the new handbooks, correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm pretty sure they stated it, at least on their website.
Host:I don't know whether it's in their book, but I think they leave it really open, which they should, of course, that you can combine both the previous version, which is ten years old, or the new ones.
Host:And regardless what they say, I think it's always at the discretion of the DM, which part even to use from edition five or even, you know, older.
Host:I mean, the DM, you know, he sets.
Host:He or she sets the rules and just go with the flow, period.
Sam Verhage:Yeah, I agree.
Speaker C:I agree.
Speaker C:I haven't really gotten in depth in a new player's handbook, but I did take a look at my favorite class, and they did something that I do not agree with, and it pisses me off.
Speaker C:What did I do?
Speaker C:Warlock.
Sam Verhage:Yeah, sure.
Speaker C:Oh, okay.
Speaker C:And you only choose your patron when you're third level.
Speaker C:So you're telling me the first few levels, you're not a warlock.
Speaker C:Basically, that.
Speaker C:It pisses me off.
Sam Verhage:I see why.
Sam Verhage:I see why.
Sam Verhage:But story wise, story wise, with a good DM, you can.
Sam Verhage:It can make sense.
Speaker C:That's the part why I always love to incorporate in my backstory already, because to me, it makes sense that warlock, you start as a level one already with a patron chosen, so you incorporate how you got to acquaint your patron in your backstory.
Sam Verhage:I agree.
Sam Verhage:But to that point.
Sam Verhage:To that point, you chose your patron, but it takes up to level three for the patron to choose you, and that's a roleplaying moment.
Sam Verhage:There.
Sam Verhage:You see?
Speaker C:True.
Sam Verhage:It's.
Sam Verhage:But we can go on discussing about that until.
Sam Verhage:Until we.
Sam Verhage:Until we're 80 years old.
Sam Verhage:The thing is, if you.
Sam Verhage:If you look at the changes that they made, didn't.
Sam Verhage:It didn't really.
Sam Verhage:It didn't really merit a complete reprint.
Sam Verhage:And I now I feel that everyone, because I will.
Sam Verhage:I will buy the books as well.
Sam Verhage:Let's not.
Host:Let's not fool ourselves.
Sam Verhage:No, let's not fool.
Sam Verhage:The biggest lies are the lies that we tell ourselves.
Sam Verhage:Of course.
Sam Verhage:Of course I will buy the books just for the new.
Sam Verhage:Just for the new.
Host:The new art.
Sam Verhage:The new art.
Sam Verhage:And the corners of my books are all scuffed and.
Host:Exactly.
Host:Any excuse will make.
Host:Any excuse will make due.
Host:But on that, as we're running out of time, is there a last question that you want to ask Sam?
Speaker C:No.
Speaker C:I think we've went through everything that.
Host:We wanted to ask in this very short moment.
Sam Verhage:Of course.
Host:All right, Sam, is there any question you would have for us?
Sam Verhage:So no tales from the tome today?
Host:Not perhaps.
Host:Not perhaps.
Sam Verhage:I came loaded.
Sam Verhage:I wanted to know if you.
Sam Verhage:If you.
Sam Verhage:Did you read the first law yet from Abercrombie Joe Abrocron?
Host:Yes, I did.
Sam Verhage:The blade itself.
Sam Verhage:The blade itself, my dear God, one of the best, best books in fantasy written in the last 15 years.
Host:It's so cool and happy that.
Host:I mean, I'm very glad that you mentioned it because as we're challenging ourselves, my daughter and I, with, you know, exchanging books, it really.
Host:And that's exactly what I wanted at least to achieve between the both of us, is to be, quote, unquote, forced to discover new books or rediscover new books at a higher reading pace than we're used to.
Host:But it really is such a grateful thing, because then you get to read stuff and that you say, oh, now I understand what all the hype was about, you know, reading for the first time, you know, classics, and that's exactly what I want to do.
Host:And I'm in the middle of, to your point, in the middle of the book that you recommended me, Piranesi, and I was really, how to put it?
Host:It was a weird moment coming into the story.
Speaker C:I warned you.
Speaker C:I did warn you.
Host:So weird.
Host:But then you get.
Host:You get the story, you get the poetry.
Host:It's beautiful.
Sam Verhage:Yeah, nice.
Host:It's real.
Sam Verhage:I did buy the poppy, the poppy war, because you.
Sam Verhage:Because you indoctrinated me in the last six episodes.
Sam Verhage:I think you mentioned.
Sam Verhage:You mentioned it like, 25 times when you know it.
Sam Verhage:And I said, okay, there has to be something about this book.
Sam Verhage:But then.
Sam Verhage:But then you guys started talking about Sara J.
Sam Verhage:Miles and Cord of thorn and roses, and I was like, hmm, that's not funny.
Speaker C:Okay, okay, honey, honey, you picked the wrong series, because a court of thorns and roses, I'm gonna admit, I do liked reading it, but from a point of this is I turn my brain off and I just read, like, you know, those television programs where you turn your brain off.
Speaker C:That's.
Speaker C:That's that type of.
Host:It's called football.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Sam Verhage:Okay.
Speaker C:That's that type of.
Speaker C:It's not a masterpiece.
Speaker C:It's fine.
Sam Verhage:Okay.
Speaker C:Throne of glass, however.
Sam Verhage:I haven't sampled that one yet.
Speaker C:No, we can talk when you have sampled that one.
Sam Verhage:Okay.
Speaker C:Because I agree.
Speaker C:Throne of glass, when you look at it from, is this book really good?
Speaker C:And do I really like the story?
Speaker C:Is the plot well built?
Speaker C:Is a world well built.
Speaker C:No, especially the later books.
Speaker C:It's just smut.
Speaker C:It's fairy porn.
Speaker C:It's not that good.
Speaker C:It's fine, but it's not a good book.
Sam Verhage:I was very surprised at one point.
Sam Verhage:I was like, ooh, okay.
Host:Oh, we're going there.
Host:We're going there.
Speaker C:This was.
Sam Verhage:And then the next page as well.
Speaker C:Yeah, but throne of glass, nothing.
Sam Verhage:No, no.
Speaker C:Fairy porn.
Sam Verhage:I will try it.
Speaker C:Just plot.
Speaker C:It's just world building, and I love it.
Sam Verhage:Well, I'm going to start the poppy wars first.
Speaker C:That's also a very good choice.
Sam Verhage:Absolutely.
Host:Well, I think that I'll have to be the judge here, time wise speaking, because we're nearing our full hour already.
Speaker C:No, we already passed it.
Host:Oh, we already passed it.
Sam Verhage:I apologize.
Host:I mean, it's just a good excuse to, whenever we have, or you have the time, do just a follow up.
Host:I think there's much more to discuss and to share.
Host:But I would first want to thank you, Sam, for your time.
Host:My pleasure.
Host:And sharing your experiences.
Host:And at least it makes us feel much better that we align with one another, that we agree that dming, as you should be doing, dear daughter.
Speaker C:Scares me.
Host:But if there's one thing that I can take home, one take home message, as far as I'm concerned, is that whatever the platform or the mechanics that you want to use to create your story, and at the end of the day, it is your own creativity, your own ideas of a story that you want to share with other players and just use whatever mechanic seems fit to your story, period.
Host:Do you have any take home messages to your daughter?
Speaker C:No.
Host:No?
Host:Okay.
Host:All right.
Host:Is there any take home message from your side, Sam?
Sam Verhage:This was enlightening.
Sam Verhage:I had immense fun.
Sam Verhage:I was nervous coming here, to be quite honest, but this went very well.
Sam Verhage:Thanks for having me.
Host:It was our pleasure.
Host:It's very, very pleasant.
Host:I mean, I'm still eyeing the rolled up poster that you have.
Host:I mean, we'll share some images, if you would allow us to.
Host:Sure, sure.
Sam Verhage:Yeah.
Host:Because I'm really intrigued.
Sam Verhage:Well, the thing is, this is.
Sam Verhage:This is what I wanted to show you guys.
Sam Verhage:I found something, and I wanted to share it.
Host:All right.
Sam Verhage:Maybe for.
Sam Verhage:For aspiring DM's as well.
Sam Verhage:This is just a simple a.
Sam Verhage:An.
Sam Verhage:A one color print.
Sam Verhage:I'm sorry for the background noise.
Sam Verhage:That's okay.
Host:That's okay.
Sam Verhage:And I was struggling with hiding pieces of the map for my players.
Sam Verhage:And what I found is my wife.
Sam Verhage:She has, like, a big top of a split piece of.
Sam Verhage:And what I do is these maps.
Sam Verhage:These maps, they get printed on, like, a big HP machine.
Sam Verhage:And when I use new maps, I just tip over my big bucket of split peas, and I cover the map with it.
Sam Verhage:Like, if you've ever played civilization or these fog of war games, even if you've played League of Legends, when you walk through the map, the map clears up, so people don't know what's happening.
Sam Verhage:Normally they cover it with pages.
Sam Verhage:And now I can just.
Sam Verhage:I can move.
Sam Verhage:I can move the split piece out of the way to have them.
Sam Verhage:Okay, so you're casting light on your shield.
Sam Verhage:Okay.
Sam Verhage:That's a cone about 3ft wide.
Sam Verhage:Fine.
Sam Verhage:So this is 3ft.
Sam Verhage:That's the only thing that you see.
Sam Verhage:Good luck.
Sam Verhage:What are you going to do?
Host:Excellent.
Host:But the mess you have to clean.
Sam Verhage:Up afterwards, well, it's when you have six players, so when they all work together, we can get stuff done.
Host:All right, excellent.
Host:But we're going to, if you would allow it, we're going to take some pictures, and I.
Host:So.
Host:But that's all I have for this episode.
Host:I really enjoyed this one, and I would be honored to have you back whenever you would.
Sam Verhage:Whenever you have me.
Sam Verhage:With pleasure.
Host:Excellent.
Host:Okay, well, that's a wrap.
Speaker C:This concludes our episode.
Speaker C:So until next time, stay enchanted, stay.
Host:Curious, and keep the fantasy alive.
